ellydash: (golden brittany)
[personal profile] ellydash

This was a messy episode, and I mean that in the best possible way. So often this show takes the easy way out with its characterization and plots (especially when it chooses not to have either) that when it makes decisions that aren't easy, and doesn't fully resolve them, I'm impressed and pleased. Honestly, I can't remember the last episode that was this constantly emotionally complicated - sure, we get scenes here and there pretty often, but usually not throughout the whole hour. It felt written, you know? Like, not just thrown together at the last minute with a hot glue gun and a few shakes from a glitter can, per vintage RIB. I loved it. Unreservedly, absolutely loved it.

I have a lot of Quinn feelings. More than last week, even, which I thought would be hard to do - I'm fascinated by what's happening with her character. Which is not to say at all that I agree with what she's doing. I cringed at so much of what she said tonight, especially her line to Shelby about Shelby not being Beth's mother, and then, of course, the "we're going to get full custody" comment to Puck at the end. But it fits with what we know about her, from the little consistent characterization we've had for Quinn: she's ruthless when she wants to be, because it's what she's learned is the most effective at getting her what she thinks she wants. I rolled my eyes a little when we saw blonde!Quinn asking if she could rejoin the glee club, because it figures, this show wrapping everything up in a nice bow without addressing a lot of the issues brought up - but she's actually not on board, and she's going after something that's just a terrible idea and will almost definitely hurt everyone involved. I can't wait (and I feel kind of awful about that, to be honest).

Puck Puckerman continues his ascent to the top of my heart, and I'm pretty sure that clownpig was the final step onto the summit. That scene with Shelby and Beth was such a perfect combination of Mark's lolacting and his ~natural rapport with babies, and his efforts to get clean and smart for the baby, just. You guys, he learned about Napoleon for Beth.

Will was - probably the least terrible he's been since BIOTA, in my opinion. Yeah, that outburst at Quinn was not great, for many reasons, chiefly among them timing, tone and textbook lack of self-awareness in telling someone else they need to grow up (and also WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU THAT YOU'RE YELLING AT A STUDENT IN FRONT OF SUE SYLVESTER AND A CAMERA). Not to mention taking out his anger with Sue on a student for the second time in two weeks. But a lot of what he said was, imo, accurate, and even though it was inappropriately delivered, it laid out some actual boundaries and consequences for Quinn in a way I think she was implicitly asking for. And he actually showed some interest in pedagogy, which, okay, it was only booty camp, but BABY STEPS. Not the worst! Well done, Will!

Wow, this is already massively tl;dr, but I ain't curr, feelings.

I felt for Kurt, man. The stuff on gender performance and passing was right up my alley as a topic, anyway, but Chris Colfer hit that whole subplot out of the park - that scene where he was overhearing Beiste, Emma and Artie talking? His face was amazing. And I loved that even though Burt delivered the lesson at the end, with "you are who you are and that's great," it wasn't resolved successfully for Kurt - sure, he's a unicorn, and proud of it, but it still means getting overlooked and framed in certain ways that he isn't okay with. I hope like hell he gets cast as Tony.

My theory about Sue is that she's a million times more interesting when she's interacting with ND, rather than kept in adult isolation, and I think this episode was a perfect test case for that. The Quinn and Sue scene in the beginning was good, imo - but the scene in the teacher's lounge? Boring. I'm hoping all this fuck-the-arts build-up is going somewhere fun, because so far it's been a wash.

Loved Brittany and Santana. Loved Brittany's struggle with not feeling smart, loved Santana actually being supportive and caring, loved that Brittany's taking the plunge and challenging herself. It's probably the most I've enjoyed Britt since "Comeback," actually.

Other things:

- I liked Finn this week, way more than I have in a long time (with the exception of that "nothing good came out of New York" comment in the beginning). He seemed like he enjoyed working on that car, and even though it was completely IC for Rachel to see staying in Lima and being a mechanic as "settling," I hope that if that's what makes Finn happy, that's what he ends up doing.

- Currently shipping Puck/Shelby like I'm getting paid to do it.

- If those unicorn posters were supposed to be the "true" representation of Kurt, I'm not seeing it. That was some Lisa Frank swag, and about as far from Kurt Hummel's taste as you can get.

What'd you guys think? Did any of you not like the episode? Are y'all as excited by the preview for next week as I am? Will singing "Fix You" is just the flawless cherry on his douche cake, and Rachel/Mercedes diva battles, yesssss. Can't wait. (Also, I'm gonna try not putting this behind friends lock, like I usually do, on the off-chance that there are other folks out there who also might want to talk about the episode? I'm pretty sure that next to no one's really reading this journal who isn't already my friend, but just in case, I'd love to read any and all thoughts. ♥)

Date: 2011-09-28 07:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spookykat.livejournal.com
TOOOOTALLY with you on the shipping Puck/Shelby and the gender stuff that was touched on in this ep. SERIOUSLY.

WELL-PLAYED RIB, Well. Played.

Also, Mark was the total stand-out for this ep. I was truly impressed by his acting and I reeeeally really hope that the "character from season 1" that Puck is supposed to hook up with...is Shelby.

Those unicorn posters were not the 'true' representation of Kurt. They were...Brittany's idea, and Kurt didn't want them, but kept them for the sake of Brittany's feelings.

IDK. I feel like the Sue stuff is part of the arch this season because I think RIB see it as a statement that needs to be made on the show.

Date: 2011-09-28 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
I was impressed with Mark too! He's usually been not so great with serious scenes (I'm still cringing at his stuff in NBK), but he really pulled it off this week. And if Puck/Shelby becomes canon, I'll just - I don't know. Explode with happiness.

Yeah, I figured that Kurt was just being nice about the posters, but I thought the confluence of "You're a unicorn, Kurt!" with accepting the posters that didn't fit his personality felt a little bit awkward. I get what they were trying to do, though, so it's a total nitpick.

With Sue - just, sigh. A political campaign could be super interesting if it was better developed, but it just feels so disconnected from everything else thus far.

Date: 2011-09-28 10:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] littlestclouds.livejournal.com
I actually really liked this episode, which surprised me because I guess I was expecting a letdown.

I loved the stuff with Quinn. She's so broken. Or maybe not actually broken but . . . injured and lashing out, or something. I dunno. I am really interested in her/her arc now, when I couldn't say that in S1 or S2.

Also, I loved the look on Puck's face when Quinn told him they were going to get full custody of Beth. I can't wait to see where this goes. /evil hand rubs

Date: 2011-09-28 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
I was expecting a letdown, too! I'm pleasantly surprised so far this season. And I don't think I've ever been this interested in Quinn, except maybe with her Mercedes friendship in S1 and that great speech she had in S2 about what she thinks her future will be like.

Date: 2011-09-28 02:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] milk-and-glass.livejournal.com
I love love love what they're doing with Quinn right now. She is one of the most screwed up, character-wise, of the characters on the show. She's never been written consistently, so I am excited to see if the writing team can follow through with what they've set up. Plus the Shelby/Rachel duet was amazing as usual. If Idina and Lea just sung for the entire show, I'd be happy :P

Date: 2011-09-28 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
Screwed-up characters are my absolute favorite, so I'm completely over the moon they're exploring this with Quinn. And I agree with waiting to see if they develop any consistency with her! It's like they realized they didn't do anything with Dianna during S2, so they picked up Quinn's storyline where they left off (if this was any other show, I'd assume they were intentionally letting the Beth-induced pressure build with Quinn, but lol Glee).

Got goosebumps during Somewhere. Just amazing.

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Date: 2011-09-28 02:57 pm (UTC)
ext_25166: (Default)
From: [identity profile] abluegirl.livejournal.com
Quinn is becoming increasingly more interesting to me. Her inconsistent characterization actually works, because it all plays into how unstable her personality is and how tenuous her grasp is on herself as a person. So many things point to psychopath with Quinn now, and I find that fascinating.

And Oh, Markward. <3 I love Mark and babies so much. They should have Beth in every episode just so Mark can hold her and make hearteyes at her. ♥ And I can't tell you how much I ship Puck / Shelby. They just work for me, you know?

Date: 2011-09-28 10:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
Mark and babies is just the greatest combination I could ever imagine. And yes re: psychopath Quinn - she's totally losing her hold on everything, and it's amazing to watch.

Anxiously awaiting the first Puck/Shelby fic. There's just so much potential with those two. :DDDD

Date: 2011-09-28 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arishako.livejournal.com
I swear, I'm trying to wrap my mind around this nu!nu!nu!nu!Quinn, but all my attempts at headcanon keep coming back to the fact that she's a complete psychopath.

Somebody is actually going to die before the end of the season, js.

Date: 2011-09-29 08:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kitsune13.livejournal.com
Yes, this, about Quinn. I know it's mainly writing fail on the part of RIB, but like with Will, I think they've accidentally stumbled onto something plausible and interesting about why she does what she does. She doesn't know what she really wants, but she's good at playing the role she thinks has been assigned to her that week, and she'll commit to it.

Markward, king of my heart! ♥ BABIES. And so desperate for Shelby's approval! My favorite bit was that he really, really wanted to hold Beth, but didn't because he was worried about how she'd react. It was just so sweet. And then the clownpig omg. And yes, Puck/Shelby is the best thing in the world except maybe for Sugar Motta.

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Date: 2011-09-28 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] elva-barr.livejournal.com
I was going to say smart things in reaction to this, but mostly I agree with you and am really looking forward to see where all of these plot lines go. Usually I just look forward to watching Glee on the off chance that they accidentally air one of the hypothetical cast orgies or Rachel forgets to wear a shirt or Blaine makes out with someone, but I am actually looking forward to the plot development, which is a new thing for me.

Date: 2011-09-28 10:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
Those are all excellent reasons to look forward to watching Glee, tbh. I'm still in shock that there's been actual plot development, although I'm not optimistic enough to be confident it'll continue!

Date: 2011-09-28 03:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] biruuu.livejournal.com
I'm really looking forward to this Quinn storyline too. Like you said, it's fascinating -- in a can't-look-away, girl what are you doing way -- to see how she's kind of throwing stuff at the wall and desperately hoping something sticks. (She tried the whole ~reinventing herself thing first but it obviously didn't make her happier, so now she's managed to convince herself that getting Beth back will magically fix everything because... Quinn logic. Just like winning Prom Queen was going to be the solution to all of her problems.) This storyline has a lot of trainwreck potential so I'm probably going to remember saying this when in a couple of weeks they've successfully turned Quinn and/or Shelby into moustache-twirling villains because I'm sure RIB think it makes for better TV, but so far, I like how they're handling it.

Oh, and I also loved that they didn't immediately go ~there with Puck (omg Puck, best character ♥) and Quinn, that there was absolutely nothing romantic about any of their interactions. I find "two kids who made a stupid mistake and now are in way over their heads, trying to deal with it in completely different but understandable ways" so much more compelling than "we had sex once; it means we're meant to be together even though we don't even seem to like each other very much". I think the reason I have so many feelings for this whole Puck/Quinn/Shelby/Beth deal is because I expected to hate it right from the beginning and so far, I don't. Accomplishment!

I do disagree a little on one tiny thing: the Rachel/Mercedes stuff in the promo. I think it would be amazing if, just once, they joined forces instead of going for round 2594 of "of course Rachel always gets everything she wants" vs. "I try so much harder than everyone else, I clearly deserve it more". Not that it's not believable or anything, it totally is, but they've done the pitting ambitious girls against one another so many times now and I kind of hoped they would have reached a point where they could maintain a friendly competition going during auditions instead of going straight for the jugular time after time. IDK, most of all I just want these girls to be friends for longer than an episode :(

Date: 2011-09-28 10:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
So much agreement with holding back on Puck/Quinn - I'm also really glad they haven't gone there yet. I'm sure they will, eventually, but it's so true that watching them deal with the consequences of their actions is way, way more interesting than a revisiting of their S1 relationship.

Oh, man, I want that Rachel/Mercedes friendship so much, too, but imo it makes sense that they're not at that point yet. They made a little progress in ANON, I think, but until Mercedes starts getting acknowledged more than she is, I think it'll always be a point of contention with them. So even though I'd love to see them being awesomely supportive BFFs, I don't mind the jugular part - with the qualifier that it'd be really nice if they got past that this season.

Date: 2011-09-28 04:36 pm (UTC)
pleonasm: (glee » mercedes smil)
From: [personal profile] pleonasm
Man, who even was Shelby this episode? I mean, yes, she was utterly IC, but she was such a huge jerk too. I think Quinn is being ridiculous with her plan too, but I honestly don't blame her -- and I think it's a direct consequence of the way Shelby has been treating her, so I feel like Shelby deserves whatever she gets.

Also, maybe it's just me, but I feel like Kurt should break up with Blaine just based on the way he dresses, because there's no way the little bow ties and culottes are fashionable, man.

Date: 2011-09-28 11:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
I'm not the biggest Shelby fan, even though I love Idina Menzel (who doesn't?) - and yeah, I wasn't thrilled with her. If Shelby was smart about it, she would've stayed out of Quinn's life (and Puck's too) - she's just opening a whole can of worms that Beth really doesn't need to be exposed to. Quinn's in no way ready or able to be part of Beth's life right now in a way that's good for Beth, and that's on Shelby, imo.

I burst out laughing at Blaine's clothes in the choir room. It's my headcanon that Kurt has an outfit schedule for Blaine, and that he likes to take it out on him passive-aggressively when he's annoyed with Blaine. I'm expecting some fantastically hideous choices next week.

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Date: 2011-09-28 05:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] haispecialhell.livejournal.com
My problem with this episode is that it's an episode that I could have appreciated more if it came many episodes earlier. I understand that Quinn needed to be able to try to pretend that having Beth never happened in season 2, but it didn't need to go on for the entire season. The current breakdown seems more like a reaction to Finn than to Beth. Sue even places the emphasis on Quinn losing her boyfriend. Also, this does follow the slap together too many issues in one episode approach they've done in the past, except this time there was a slight set up one episode earlier.

I absolutely hate what they are doing with Quinn in so many ways. They are clearly writing her as some sort of sociopath/borderline disorder character without actually deeming her to have any disorders. I get the breakdown. I wish they would have taken the time to let her feel it out, but now we're back to the "you'll see" Quinn from the last few episodes of season 2, which is frustrating to me. Also, as someone who has received a J.D., the custody story line they are going on is ridiculous. And wtf, she and Mercedes are suddenly friends again when they went season 2 without talking and acted like they hardly knew each other. I like Mercedes/Quinn but I want it done right. The Shelby comments I saw more of as Quinn lashing out, which is what she does when she feels threatened. I'm not saying I condone what she did, but it fits in with past actions her character has done.

Will - I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. Will was just as douchy as usual to me. The approach he took with Quinn was awful. She was playing the victim card, but a lot of bad things happened to her and she never really resolved them. I think it's okay for her to wallow for a while. Granted her anger at glee club is misplaced, but Will should have pulled a Shelby and handled Quinn with firmness and care. It is not okay to yell at students, but apparently Will thinks it is always okay.

Puck - I loved him this episode, but then I got upset. His "look at me I'm so redeemed" situation reeks of the entitlement that males have on this show. If Finn, Will, Puck, or Kurt do something wrong on this show it is written off. Rachel, Santana, and Quinn, especially Quinn, are always taken to task. What's worse is that Quinn is made out to be a villain this episode, yet I can't blame a lot of what is going on with her because she was a girl who wasn't yet ready to be a parent and her parents bailed on her, she lost everything else that mattered to her, and when she tried to pick up the pieces it failed spectacularly. All of this happened and if I think about it, I have to blame most of this on Puck. Yes, Quinn agreed to have sex with him, but she did not agree to have unprotected sex with him. He assured her there was a condom. I just can't get with this he is so great when the whole situation is quite clearly his mistake.

I have issues with this Kurt not realizing he couldn't pass thing. He's spent so much time forcing people to recognize his feminine side that it should be quite obvious that well, he's not leading man material, at least not in a traditional sense. I'm not usually much for Blaine because I find the character to be bland, but idk Blaine kind of makes for the perfect Tony. I don't think I could see Kurt as that character.

I agree about Sue. Otherwise it just comes off as awkward ranting.

Brittany and Santana seem to be acting like the Brittany/Santana before "Duets" which makes me happy. I like it when they are touchy-feely and supportive friends who scissor.

I'm normally not much of a Finn fan and I did roll my eyes when he made the New York comment, but I agree. I really like that he's okay and happy with working in the garage and that he doesn't see it as a bad thing.

Puck/Shelby is my new dirtybadwrong ship.

Brittany made those posters and I believe she would have an abundance of Lisa Frank swag, so I think it fits the maker of the posters not necessarily the target.

Also, Sugar Motta. I love that she had her dad make another glee club, find Shelby for it, and then down Shelby. Sugar just makes me laugh and I love her.

Booty camp was a good Will idea. It was fun to watch the dancing. It gave me Will/Mike pedo!will feelings.

Date: 2011-09-28 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
Agreed this episode was a long time coming. If it were a different show, one that's consistently well-written, I'd assume that they were just going for a really long, drawn out build-up with Quinn's Beth issues (and her other general self-esteem issues, too). But of course, it's Glee, so I assume they just mostly forgot about Quinn until the Finn and Lucy plotlines towards the end of S2. I think what it comes down to is that I'm willing to forgive the show a lot of the dumb, sloppy stuff it does (stuff it absolutely deserves to get called on) when they hit the emotions right. Or at least right for me.

I'm not sure that Quinn's being written specifically as sociopathic or borderline (she definitely responds to emotions, as we saw with Will and Shelby, and I don't know that we have enough info to label her borderline) - but she's clearly making decisions out of anger and fear, and there's definitely something really wrong with her that needs addressing. It could all go very, very badly (and probably will) but right now I'm pretty okay with how they're handling her. I can definitely understand why you wouldn't be, though.

As for Will - agreed that the approach was not okay. I probably (okay, definitely) allow Will a little more slack than most because my standards for him are low, and I'm more triggered to anger by certain kinds of interactions he has ("helping" Emma as the main one), so I think I'm more inclined to not want to take him to task as much with Quinn. It wasn't a good idea to yell at her the way he did for a million different reasons, but I get why he did it. So I feel like I should amend my original thoughts on this to be a little more critical - looking back with the perspective of a day post-episode now, I'm less inclined to argue that his anger was at all effective at giving Quinn the structure she's looking for.

(I honestly love hearing opinions that don't jive with mine, because they make me rethink assumptions I've made and actually force me to support them! I'm glad you shared this. ♥)

Date: 2011-09-28 11:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arishako.livejournal.com
I actually agree with you about being frustrated with the way Puck treated Quinn in this episode. Mostly because he wasn't actually in a better place than her, technically speaking. He got to see Beth because he showed up at Shelby's house completely uninvited. And while I do acknowledge how hard he's trying to make himself a better person (did he make a comment about drinking less? I think so), I got sort of peeved about the way he was talking to Quinn about how she was coping. He wound up basically just being another person in that ep (god, what's the count up to? 3? 4?) telling Quinn that her life is awful and they don't want to associate with her.

I think that, regardless of whether the whole thing was Puck's fault or not, he of all people should know how Quinn must feel (at least somewhat. on top of the whole Beth thing there's also her position as a Cheerio, losing prom queen, losing nationals, being exposed as Lucy, losing her boyfriend again, etc). And, idk, I just thought it was too harsh. :/ I thought a lot of people were being too harsh on her in this ep. Idk lol. /incoherency

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Date: 2011-09-28 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nonsensesqrd.livejournal.com
This episode left me with so many feeling that I can't even begin to explore.

First and foremost the Quinn storyline is something that should have been done last year, but you know better late than never. I kind of wonder if maybe Shelby reached out to them during the summer and that is what made Quinn flip her lid. Like after the haircut and pretending it never happened wasn't working so she tried this.

I didn't cringe about what she said to Shelby because that is what she is feeling. She is Beth's mother, but yeah she really isn't and not dealing with giving Beth has kept Quinn from healing and moving on from that loss.

I could have done without the duet but I surprisingly liked the Shelby/Rachel scene. It was well played and hit just the rights notes (see what I did there) about them both trying to deal and move on from last year.

Puck Puckerman is the King of my heart rn. I love that he is so faily but also trying. He loves that little girl and is willing to do a lot just to see her. It also left me shipping Shelby/Puck like crazy. (Also shipping Puck/Quinn rn.) I saw someone mention Puck looked Shelby's age and his "friends in law enforcement" that I now have this headcanon about Puck going undercover and it destroying what was left of his rocky marriage to Shelby. He ends up losing himself in his assignment and hitting rock bottom before ~reforming and reconnecting with Shelby. worst anon ever but I want to talk about this everywhere!!

I want Blaine to be Tony! While I felt for Kurt, I don't think he would make a great Tony based on his auditions. Acting (lol!acting on this show whatevs) is about transforming yourself into someone else and Kurt's auditions didn't do that. His song was 100% Kurt, it wasn't Tony, and his other one was just over the top. If he had just done a reading of a modern play it wouldn't have as been as awkward or kind of funny. I know it wasn't nice but his voice being deeper made me crack up just because I am a horrible person.

Date: 2011-09-29 06:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
The Quinn storyline really should have been done last year, but agreed that at least they're doing it now. I think I cringed at that line not because it wasn't honest or what Quinn was feeling - it definitely was/is, and it makes complete sense for Quinn to be thinking that way - but because the whole "real" parent thing with adoption is such a touchy, problematic subject, and to hear it said so baldly was pretty raw.

I liked the Shelby/Rachel scene too! Especially that "somewhere there is a place for us" line that Rachel took literally - that was nicely done.

Blaine would probably make a better Tony, you're right, but I don't know, I really want Kurt to have a chance at a leading male role, and I think that would be a lot more groundbreaking than Kurt getting cast as Maria, which I'm worried is what might happen. Actually, in my ideal world Rachel would be Tony and Mercedes would be Maria, but I'm sure that isn't in the cards!

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Date: 2011-09-28 09:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] the-seaward.livejournal.com
Thrown together with a hot glue gun, you say? Interesting.

I have no idea how I feel about this episode. There was a lot going on, and yet I found it a little boring. I think I like Glee best when it's lulzy and sort of awful. WHY, SELF?

The Kurt storyline should have been interesting, but I was filled with such dread the whole time that I couldn't enjoy it. Also, what was with all the giggling during the Romeo and Juliet read? I get why we were supposed to be laughing, but a.) I thought Kurt did a fine job and b.) it was out of character for Artie, Emma, Rachel and most of all Beiste to laugh like that.

I have a lot of feelings about Quinn. I liked the Will and Quinn scene, I'm glad the writers are finally going there with the baby storyline, I think Quinn's selfish (and foolish) plan to get full custody of Beth is consistent with her characterization—HOWEVER, if this is the end of the Skanks then just SAY IT AIN'T SO. I am also really glad that Quinn's costume change doesn't automatically mean that she's suddenly back to "old" Quinn.

WOOF to every single musical number (except for Sugar's flawless warm-up, of course). I fast-forwarded through all three. The slow-motion dancing with Will and Mike was an odd stylistic choice, but I was glad to see the show choir-based television program actually acknowledging that show choirs need to practice if they hope to win.

Puck Puckerman continues to be flawless, even if he looks more like Mr. Shelby Corcoran than WMHS Senior Badass Extraordinaire.

FINAL THOUGHT: I also refuse to believe that Dustin Goolsby was fired for any other reason than sleeping with the enemy.

Date: 2011-09-29 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
(This is why RIB should really just stay out of the crafts room.)

No, I totally get what you mean about liking Glee best when it's lulzy and awful! I mean, BIOTA and Comeback are totally in my top five favorite all-time episodes. But I think I love the show equally when it's dealing with the dark stuff - like, what drew me towards the show in the first place was the whole idea that Will and these kids were using glee club as an escape mechanism from their lives, and I think what we saw this week was ND failing as a place of refuge for Quinn and Kurt both. Which, idk, is super interesting to me.

Yeah, the giggling during that Romeo/Juliet scene really bothered me. And especially for Beiste, who of all people should get what it's like to not be able to pass for what counts as "acceptably" gendered? Pretty messed up.

So far this season none of the numbers have warranted a second listen for me, although I did like the Rachel/Shelby - but I liked the performance of it better than the song itself, really.

This is my new Dustin Goolsby headcanon, js. Also Bryan Ryan was in the corner filming them with Sue's camera, y/y?

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Date: 2011-09-28 10:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lennoxave.livejournal.com
WORD. I feel like I've seen a lot of hate on this episode from some of the corners I Tumblr-stalk, but I definitely loved it. I loved how I didn't feel like I was getting anvil-ed into feeling any one particular feeling; like you said, everything was messy and complicated, and that's not a bad thing. Quinn's complete insanity and general lack of consistent characterization now feels like a deliberate attempt to show someone who just blatantly has no idea who they are as a person, and I'm interested in seeing where the show goes with this. Also, God bless that look Puck Puckerman gives her when she says they're going to get full custody. When the guy who wanted to raise your baby on pool-cleaning/underage escort money and name her Jackie Daniels is WTF-ing at you? Look at your life/choices/etc.

I'm also totally with you on the Quinn/Will scene, but I liked Will completely without reservations in that first Shelby scene. That his first thought wasn't about the second show choir or his ego but about how her presence was going to mess with the heads of three of his students reminded me of "Preggers"/"Ballad" Will, who sucked significantly less at his job.

My unpopular opinion for this week: I don't think Beiste was out of character with how she treated Kurt. She's been made fun of for being masculine, sure, but she's never tried to be anything else. I think it's telling that she thinks Kurt singing a girl's song is a great performance, even if it doesn't convince her that he should be Tony, but that it's when he tries to be something he's not (or that she doesn't think he is) that she can't take him seriously. I feel like fandom has tried to make Shannon into a bastion of tolerance (and I've certainly written her that way), but nothing about canon really supports that. Just because she's been bullied doesn't mean she has evolved, informed views about gender roles, and I can absolutely believe that she might be kind of a douche about the whole thing. I'm curious what your opinion on that is.

Date: 2011-09-29 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ellydash.livejournal.com
I loved that Will made the point to Shelby about how painful her return would be for Rachel, Quinn and Puck. Man, I wish that Will would show up more often (he can be drunk the rest of the time).

Ooh, yes, Beiste. I knew there was something I'd forgotten to talk about. I think it's very interesting she's mostly gotten slack for what she said and did this episode - I'm sure it's because she's built up a lot of credit with the fandom (imagine if Will had said that he didn't want to cast Kurt because Kurt didn't excite his "manparts!" Or if Will had made that "prison bitch" comment. Or if Will had laughed at Kurt's audition). I completely agree with you that there really isn't anything in canon to suggest that Shannon's innately supportive of non-normative genders, etc - just that she's struggled with her own. You'd think that she'd be the least likely to laugh at Kurt of the trio of directors, considering she knows exactly what it's like not to be able to pass, but she's giggling along with the rest of them. And while that's painful, you're absolutely right that we haven't seen anything to indicate that's OOC for her.

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Date: 2011-09-28 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arishako.livejournal.com
I have such conflicted feelings on Will rn. What he said to Quinn was all technically true, but the scene as a whole was just gross to me. Like, he wasn't telling her this in the hopes that she would help herself (which, as a (often over-invested) teacher, would presumably be his main goal in a situation like this) and he wasn't telling her this in a way that would really be useful to her. Like, the whole screaming in her face thing just doesn't seem to me like it'd help.

And I don't think it's Will's responsibility to help Quinn. Had he completely ignored her this episode, I would have been fine with that (well, I mean, I wouldn't have gone around praising his awesome teacherlyness or anything, but I wouldn't be as ~~~confused as I am rn). But he didn't stay neutral; he unleashed his anger about Sue's general existence on a student... again. And so while what he said about Quinn is pretty much just as true as what he said to Rachel (and possibly Kurt in B/B? I'm having trouble remembering the details), it was something that he is only arguably in a position to say (are teachers supposed to tell students that they're being annoying?) and something that he was definitely not in a position to stand up and yell while being video-taped.

Onto my Shelby feelings (and then I'll get to the excited flailing, I swear): I really dislike her. Now, as a character I think she's really interesting and definitely someone I'd want to write about; however, all throughout the episode I'm sure the people I watched it with could attest to the fact that "DAMMIT SHELBY" was one of my most commonly said phrases. Really, I would have been completely pleased if, at some point in the episode, she mentioned the fact that the reason she wanted Puck and Quinn to do things right with Beth was that Shelby herself royally screwed Rachel over multiple times and basically continues to do so. And that she's messed up her relationship with Rachel to a point where there's not a whole lot of things she can do to fix it. (Idk about the intentions or anything, but I got a huge sense of Rachel!angst during their duet. That's a large part of where these sudden feelings came from.)

Aside from that, though, I really am interested in Shelby's character. And I'm also sort of wanting some Puck/ or Quinn/Shelby rn (although I'd be really interested in seeing them in an awful and harmful relationship based almost entirely around their feelings regarding Beth (oooh or even throw their feelings for Rachel in there to make it more messed up and perfect). I might wind up writing commentfic, fuck.).


I really loved Kurt this episode. For basically all of s2, I was pretty neutral on him, but this guy has just been stealing my heart this season (and, really, if that's just Chris playing himself by this point--as some people have said--then I don't even care because he is awesome). I am loving his friendship with Rachel so far and I'm both nervous and excited for what looked like conflict in the upcoming episode. Because I initially liked the hatesex sort of vibe I got from them, but now I'm just so in love with their friendship that I almost don't want anything to change. ;____; And his initial audition song might just be my favorite Kurt solo of all time. Of all time.

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Date: 2011-09-28 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] arishako.livejournal.com
And I thought the storyline the writers started in this episode was a real winner. Tho I, like some other people here lol, got sort of lost along the way (so wait, it's good to just be known as Kurt Hummel, Homo? Or maybe not?), I thought the matter of typecasting was actually well done. Tho that scene where he was playing Romeo AND EVERYBODY LAUGHED AT HIM FUCK YOU EVERYBODY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAAAAAAAND HIS MASCULINITY. Yeah. That made me sad.

But as a part-time K/Bl shipper, I'm really curious about what's going to happen with them in the next few episodes. Because stuff like that just isn't fair to anybody in the end, and I'm so excited to see how Kurt's going to cope (because, knowing his character, I wouldn't be too surprised if he found himself resenting Blaine a little for taking the part, despite knowing that Blaine wasn't really doing anything to hurt him, but then he might just use that instance to build himself up more like he did in PQ and I just don't know omg).


also I realized I have a ridiculous amount of Quinn headcanon by this point that probably is way more time than RIB ever spent thinking about her dumb character, ~~~~~~~shit

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